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Home - General / All posts - Content tab: Moving layer buttons greyed out (Build 9.0.163.8)
gjsa2 post(s)
#10-Nov-17 22:20

Is anyone able to move layers in Manifold Future (top, up , down, etc) using the control buttons in the contents tab of a map?

They are greyed out even when a layer has the focus in the list.

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tjhb

7,503 post(s)
#11-Nov-17 00:08

No, same for me.

Dimitri


4,278 post(s)
#11-Nov-17 08:35

They are greyed out even when a layer has the focus in the list.

Toolbar buttons in the Layers panel are enabled for a selected layer. See the Layers panel topic, near the beginning.

For extra credit... why do you think those are enabled for selected records and not the current record? (A strong hint for the answer is in the topic.)

tjhb

7,503 post(s)
#11-Nov-17 19:13

The extra credit answer is that all of the controls work (flawlessly) on any number of selected layers. I had missed this. The interface is very impressive.

The selected layers need not be in a contiguous sequence. We can select one layer at the top of the stack, two groups near the middle, and one at the bottom. Or every second layer, whatever.

Then, choosing Move Down will move each selected layer down one position, Move Up will move each up by one, in both cases ignoring what is not possible (moving the top layer up or the bottom layer down).

Choosing Move to Top will collect all selected layers at the top of the stack, Move to Bottom will collect them all at the bottom.

In all cases, combined movements that are not possible are disallowed--the corresponding buttons are greyed out. E.g. moving a selection that includes the top layer upwards, or a selection including the bottom layer downwards.

It seems impossible to break the interface by choosing tricky combinations of layers.

The manual could do with some minor tweaks to reflect this behaviour. So

Move a selected layer each selected layer up in the list.

and so on. It's great.

Dimitri


4,278 post(s)
#16-Nov-17 14:18

In all cases, combined movements that are not possible are disallowed--the corresponding buttons are greyed out. E.g. moving a selection that includes the top layer upwards, or a selection including the bottom layer downwards.

Just re-read this and there is a slight adjustment to the above. Suppose in a stack of 20 layers you select four of them in various spots throughout the stack and one of the selected layers happens to be the lowest layer. A Move Down command on the toolbar will not (of course) do anything for that lowest layer, but with each Move Down click the system will move all the rest of the layers down one slot, until the next lowest layer comes to rest just above the very lowest one, at which point those further up which can still travel one slot down will continue to move down on each Move Down click.

It's easier to try than to describe, but the result makes sense when you see it, and it is useful.

Mike Pelletier


1,396 post(s)
#14-Nov-17 18:39

Once you know the Ctrl click part the interface is very nice as Tim said. If you don't know that it appears the interface isn't working at all. It needs some sort of guide to get you off the start line. Maybe for 3 seconds after the panel is opened the header says "Layer - ctrl click to select a layer" before returning to just "Layer".

Also, seems like it would be good to add to the layer panel header some of the tools now available when right clicking on a layer tab below the map, such as center, zoom, open table, and properties.

Dimitri


4,278 post(s)
#15-Nov-17 15:06

It needs some sort of guide to get you off the start line.

Can't resist... that guide is the User Manual, combined with watching a few videos... :-) You're right in that if somebody hasn't learned the basics of the product they will encounter frustration that people who have taken the time to learn the basics. But that's true of every sophisticated product. If you try to head off every situation where somebody has not learned the basics is mystified, well, that's going to really annoy people who have learned the product.

Also, seems like it would be good to add to the layer panel header some of the tools now available when right clicking on a layer tab below the map, such as center, zoom, open table, and properties.

100% agree. Much, much more will be implemented in the weeks ahead. We're putting out the basic framework first and then filling it out.

Mike Pelletier


1,396 post(s)
#15-Nov-17 20:48

I was hoping you couldn't resist :-) The layer panel is so easy to use except for the first step, it's a shame to have to fire up the user manual to do that. My suggestion is for the folks who have learned the software but don't use it enough to remember when ctrl, alt, or shift is needed. There are enough of these moves, that I think it justifies a one page keystroke help page that can be opened separate from the user manual or something similar. But I've beat this drum enough and should admit defeat on this one :-)

Dimitri


4,278 post(s)
#16-Nov-17 08:44

Well... I wouldn't admit defeat... What we should do is a super quick video on basic moves everybody must know and then link that into the manual.

Sooner or later we'll do that, so that when you open up the manual there will be a window right in the manual page to play a video if you want.

Mike Pelletier


1,396 post(s)
#17-Nov-17 17:07

Sounds good Dimitri. I enjoy your videos from Radian Land :-)

tjhb

7,503 post(s)
#17-Nov-17 19:51

I will just add this, in case it's important. I don't think it is.

I have sometimes watched a DAR video for beta/evaluation purposes, but would otherwise never, ever, voluntarily watch an online "video", if that means screengrab plus voiceover, in a million years.

They are awful, in my personal antiquated opinion, an annoying waste of time. (Always too much time, but that is only part of the problem.)

Print is far better, provided it is well thouight out, engaging and correct, with images and videos added (only) where they truly add something (which is very rare).

If that is too old-fashioned, how about real video, where an actual person speaks to camera, with sometimes a whiteboard, sometimes pictures, sometimes a screenshot or screenfeed to help.

Dimitri is always particularly scathing about "stupid cat videos" taking over the internet. That is how I feel too--just not about cats.

KlausDE
6,043 post(s)
#17-Nov-17 19:59

As it's now during development of MF I love those short love videos because I simply don't manage to find what I need in the current alphabetic labyrinth of help items that give me 20 matches without prioritization.

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