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Home - General / All posts - Hash pattern when opening Map - M9
545 post(s)
#23-May-18 18:21

When I open a Map element containing a Google Satellite layer as well as another layer I get a hash pattern in the window pane. I have ignored the issue until now, because I can select one of the tabs on the Map and Zoom to fit. Zoom to fit puts me back where I recognize the map. However, selecting the Goog Sat layer and zooming does not change the hash pattern. Since I could easily fix the render with zoom I have not reported it. But things work differently with a Layout element.

When I drag the Map element into a Layout it appears as hash (see attached image). With the Map in a Layout I do not have the option of Zooming to fit. Double clicking on the Map in the Layout enables zoom; however, zooming in or out does not seem to change the hash pattern or density of the pattern. In the image the hash looking element should look like the hillshade DEM in the back layer. Is there a way to fix this in the Layout?

M9 Layout with Hash pattern.jpg


8,516 post(s)
#23-May-18 19:24

As a very quick guess, I would suggest a failing graphics card as a possibility, or a buggy graphics driver.

Can you try going to Tools > Options and changing the Engine option, first to Basic, Software, to see if the issue disappears. (Then try Advanced, Software.)

More importantly perhaps, can you list your software and hardware, especially graphics card and graphics driver version.

Best of all, can you share a project that usually or always shows this, with instructions for others to test?

545 post(s)
#23-May-18 23:00

So far resetting the software speed had a huge effect, but not in fixing the issue. Render time for one map went from 3.1 seconds to 28.8 seconds from Full Advanced with accel down to simply Advanced. That was for a contour area drawing made from the DEM.

I checked for new drivers. I didn't write it down, but I think the newest driver for this unit is from 8/2015. Here's my hardware according to Belarc Advisor:

Operating System

Windows 7 Professional (x64) Service Pack 1 (build 7601)

Install Language: English (United States)

System Locale: English (United States)

Installed: 8/18/2014 3:52:28 PM

Boot Mode: Legacy BIOS in UEFI (Secure Boot not supported)

System Model

Dell Inc. OptiPlex 9020 01

System Service Tag: HVPPX12 (support for this PC)

Chassis Serial Number: HVPPX12

Enclosure Type: Mini-Tower


3.40 gigahertz Intel Core i7-4770

256 kilobyte primary memory cache

1024 kilobyte secondary memory cache

8192 kilobyte tertiary memory cache

64-bit ready

Multi-core (4 total)

Hyper-threaded (8 total)


AMD Radeon HD 8490 [Display adapter]

Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600 [Display adapter]

DELL P2714H [Monitor] (27.2"vis, s/n XX-0NV2C4-XXXXX-456-17PS, May 2014)

DELL P2714H [Monitor] (27.2"vis, s/n XX-0NV2C4-XXXXX-456-17KS, May 2014)

I will set up a miniature version to upload, tomorrow.


1,669 post(s)
#24-May-18 03:28

Here is a project that recreates it.

M9 Layout Hash.mxb

Landsystems Ltd ... Know your land |


6,283 post(s)
#24-May-18 07:38

For me the hash of the raster component disappears when I change the projection of the map to the projection of bing (enhanced hardware acceleration)

But then on the fly projection of vector coastlines creates rubbish when I zoom out.

So I guess the culprit is this New Zealand Transverse Mercator projection.


8,516 post(s)
#24-May-18 07:56

Except that dchall8 is in Texas.


5,251 post(s)
#24-May-18 08:42

Except that dchall8 is in Texas.

We don't know (yet) what dchall8 is doing, but it would not be surprising to have a similar issue going on in terms of incompatible projections being used. Without details you can't say. Could be that, could be a bug, you just don't know.

A classic clue (but it is just one clue and not a proof) that incompatible projections are in play is when there is trouble with a whole world view but zooming in cures the issue. That is because projections often are compatible in small scales but not for the whole world.

545 post(s)
#24-May-18 14:25

Changing the Map to the projection of Google Satellite works for me, too. The DEM files I'm using are NAD83/UTM zone 14N (EPSG:26914). The GS projection is WGS 84 / Pseudo-Mercator (EPSG:3857).

I can certainly live with that, but was not expecting that to be the solution. Since Manifold has always had projection compatibility on the fly, this is a surprise. In M8 I get a warning when dragging a Google Satellite layer into a Map in another (incompatible?) projection. In M9 is there a way to force the map to be in the Google Satellite projection when creating the Map?


5,251 post(s)
#24-May-18 20:43

ince Manifold has always had projection compatibility on the fly, this is a surprise.

Manifold can reproject on the fly but that doesn't mean it can defy mathematics. For example, no dividing by zero.

The way projections work, some are genuinely incompatible with each other. For example, there are projections that can only show Northern polar regions. They cannot show southern regions. Likewise, there are projections that can only show Southern polar regions. They cannot show Northern polar regions. You can't use both at the same time because they are fundamentally, mathematically incompatible.

In M8 I get a warning when dragging a Google Satellite layer into a Map in another (incompatible?) projection.

No, that warning was because Release 8 cannot reproject an imageserver layer, not at all, not even to a highly compatible projection. The warning you get is because you were trying to reproject, not because you were trying to reproject into an incompatible projection.

In M9 is there a way to force the map to be in the Google Satellite projection when creating the Map?

Yes. I see we still have some work to do on this "reading the basics" stuff. :-)

There are two ways:

1) The map automatically uses whatever is the projection of the first layer added to the map. So, create the map and then drag and drop a Google Satellite layer into it.

2) In the Components panel, change the projection of the map to the default Pseudo Mercator. One click does the trick.

545 post(s)
#25-May-18 14:41

From the M8 mindset, when you right-click a drawing in the Project pane and select Create>Map, there comes a dialog box in which you can select the drawings and images you want to be in the Map. The drawing or image you right-clicked is checked by default. With M9 right-clicking a drawing does something similar, but right-clicking the Google Satellite layer will not allow creation of a new map. That is the sort of 'force' I was thinking of. This is a case of 8 is not 9.

287 post(s)
#25-May-18 16:13

clicking the Google Satellite layer will not allow creation of a new map

That is because GS Image is inside GS readonly datasource. Right-Click there means wanting to create new map inside that datasource.

You can create empty map in M9 (not in 8). Create it inside root project and the first image or drawing you drag and drop there determines the coordinate system as Dimitri said.

You can create image for GS inside root project. That differs only slightly from the original:


CREATE IMAGE [Google Maps v2 Satellite Image] (

  PROPERTY 'FieldLevel' 'Level',

  PROPERTY 'FieldTile' 'Tile',

  PROPERTY 'FieldX' 'X',

  PROPERTY 'FieldY' 'Y',

  PROPERTY 'LevelBase' '0',

  PROPERTY 'LevelMax' '21',

  PROPERTY 'Rect' '[ 0, 0, 1073741824, 1073741824 ]',

  PROPERTY 'Source' '{lat},{lon}&zoom={zoom}&size={width}x{height}&key={key}',

  PROPERTY 'SourceServer' 'googlev2satellite',

  PROPERTY 'Table' '[Google Maps v2 Satellite]::[Google Maps v2 Satellite]',

  PROPERTY 'Type' 'imageserver'




5,251 post(s)
#25-May-18 20:01

There is some related discussion in this topic, where it shows how to copy the Google image out of the google data source, paste it into the main part of the dialog and then re-point the table to use for that pasted image back into the data source. You can then style that pasted image and have the style persist through closing/reopening of the project.


5,251 post(s)
#26-May-18 06:29

Forgot the link. The topic is Example: Style Applied to an Image Server Image


5,251 post(s)
#24-May-18 08:37

Covering the MXB first:

The MXB imports as a project which has a map that uses New Zealand Transverse Mercator. It includes Bing as a layer. Bing is in Pseudo Mercator, which is a Mercator projection that is incompatible with most Transverse Mercator projections if you try to show the whole world at once.

You can see the effect as follows:

1. Open the map. Ctrl-click on the Bing layer to zoom to fit that layer. You get hash because the transformation doesn't make sense from Mercator to that Transverse Mercator.

2. Ctrl-click on the nz-coastlines layer to zoom to fit that layer. You now get a partial display of the Bing layer because the transformation is not completely degenerate in that small region.

Solution: Use a projection for the map which is compatible with the projections used by the layers in the map, at least for the area of interest that you will be viewing. For example, re-project the NZ coastlines into lat/lon and then use Pseudo Mercator for the map.

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