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Home - General / All posts - GPU bang for the buck inflection points for Manifold use
Dimitri


5,491 post(s)
#05-Feb-19 12:23

With Viewer getting GPU parallelism as seen in the new GPU video on the Gallery page, plus all the expansions like user-specifiable GPU-ized convolution matrix filters, you might find yourself thinking about a new GPU.

I've researched various GPU options, trying to figure out what a good "bang for the buck" solution would be. GPU prices change all the time, so the "bang for the buck" sweet point also changes. A current list of "bang for the buck" inflection points might be:

Card, Cores, Newegg price ($)

GT 710, 192, 40

GT 1030, 384, 85

GTX 1050 Ti, 768, 170

GTX 1060 6GB, 1280, 250

RTX 2070 8GB, 2304, 500

RTX 2080 8GB, 2944, 750

I recommend the GTX 1060 with 6GB (not the 3GB ones). That gives you 1280 CUDA cores for $250 and plenty of on-board memory for GPGPU parallelism. The GTX 1050 Ti with 768 cores at about $170 is also a great "sweet spot" in terms of maximum bang for the buck.

The 710 and 1030 are in there because GIS goes better with three monitors. For that you need two cards. For example, I'm writing this on a rig with a GTX 1060 and a GT 710, a total of 1472 CUDA cores. The 710 is just a cheap way to plug in two more monitors. Manifold will use all those cores optimally regardless of what generation they are on if they are on separate cards.

It also helps to buy the latest generation you can, so you have a longer time before NVIDIA stops supporting the chip with CUDA drivers. Any of the 10x0 or later series are fine.

The really interesting thing we see with the latest builds is how well manycore CPU parallelism compares to GPU parallelism. Unless you are doing lots of really exceptionally math-heavy work, you don't need to feel compelled to go beyond 1000 cores. The main argument for spending $250 on a GTX 1060 6GB, with 1280 cores, is that it is so relatively inexpensive for what it is that it seems a shame not to buy it just in case that extra 6 GB and those extra cores might be useful sometimes.

But I bet in actual use you'd rarely notice any difference from what a GTX 1050 Ti, with 768 cores at a significantly lower price, would accomplish. Heck, even a GT 1030 at well under $100 provides tremendous speedup, and most people won't care if something drops in time required from over a minute to either four seconds or eight seconds.

As always, I recommend doing GIS with three monitors. Plug in a cheap GT 710 or a GT 1030 to drive extra monitors. Manifold will use the extra 192 or 384 cores as well.

If you have the budget, of course, there's nothing wrong with pushing the envelope with a higher end card, like the RTX 2080. Why not go even faster with nearly 3000 cores if you can afford it? I'm just saying that the less expensive cards are also really fast as well.

lionel

567 post(s)
#08-Feb-19 18:09

The websites UserBenchmark tool is helpfull to find the price of component compatible with our motherboard.

Since my pc is not powerfull and small i use Ti nvidia card that is small factor and without power connector !!

We can find for each component ( cpu , gpu , ssd) the best component and price to buy to upgrade our PC . Here the best choice in my case ll be to to buy a 1060 6GB ( take care only of bench column so -30 % but price -50% ) .

Attachments:
pcbenchmark.png
userBenchmark_nvidia.jpg


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Dimitri


5,491 post(s)
#08-Feb-19 18:31

The problem with that website is that it does not use the one thing you really care about: the number of cores. It also doesn't mention the amount of memory on the board.

It is basically a popularity contest with average benchmark "performance" that I guarantee you is a mix of performance in games, not CUDA parallelism.

For a cheap card, the GT 1030 is not bad. 183 euros for a GTX 1050 Ti seems too high. I've seen them in many countries in Europe for 160 to 165 euros. France is more expensive, but Amazon.fr has GTX 1050 2GB for only 135 euros, and that still gets you 640 cores. The GTX 1050 Ti is 175 euros and up.

drtees71 post(s)
#08-Feb-19 19:57

This has probably been answered elsewhere on the forum, but I am curious whether it matters if the graphics card is Nvidia or AMD. I know that Nvidia has their CUDA technology. The other technology I am faintly familiar with is OpenGL, which on the surface sounds as if it should do the same types of hardware graphics acceleration. Can Manifold utilize multiple GPUs on an AMD graphics card?

Dimitri


5,491 post(s)
#09-Feb-19 17:42

I am curious whether it matters if the graphics card is Nvidia or AMD.

Yes. Manifold requires an NVIDIA GPU of Fermi or greater. GPUs from other vendors and GPUs from NVIDIA older than Fermi generation will not work. That is explicitly discussed in the GPGPU topic. Newer NVIDIA chips are now several generations ahead of Fermi, so it is hard to find a card sold in the last couple of years or so that won't work.

OpenGL

OpenGL and similar, such as DirectX, are for graphics, not parallel computing.

drtees71 post(s)
#11-Feb-19 20:33

You are right. It was discussed there. I was worried (initially) that reliance on CUDA through Nvidia GPUs would be saddling Manifold to a specific technology. I have had other instances where a computer or a program adopted a technology that later became obsolete or unsupported. Such is the experience of anyone who has owned an Apple computer for the past thirty-some years. However, it would seem that CUDA is not likely to suffer that fate in the foreseeable future. Gaming and mining cryptocurrency may be the factors that protects the technology.

lionel

567 post(s)
#08-Feb-19 19:59

the RTX2060 successor appear the 7th January 2019, and is £100 / $100 more expensive than the GTX 1060. there is many 1060 graphic card ( asus, zotac, msi, gigabyte..) !! Some card size don't let us use 1 or 2 slot or have 2 or 3 fans ..!

DisplayPort 1.4a ready and HDMI 2.0b outputs can do static HDR ( not hdr+ ) at resolutions up to 7680×4320 (8K) at 60Hz when those monitors eventually become available in the future (TV rather than PC monitor).

Resolution value is higher with display port ( 7680x4320 ) than HDMI (4096x2160 ) .

focus on 1060 gpu : "best 1060 card" By Samuel Stewart at January 11, 2019 at www.gamingscan.com

Attachments:
nvidia1060cards.png


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Dimitri


5,491 post(s)
#09-Feb-19 17:57

About fans: some very low end cards are sold with just a big heat sink and no fans. While I understand the interest in not having to worry about a fan stopping, I don't think fanless GPU cards are a great idea if you do a lot of computing. Even very cheap cards these days seem to have at least a small fan.

Look at the Speed Demo video, where it shows 97% utilization of the GPU for minutes. Very few applications can run a GPU nearly 100%, and some of the low end cards may be betting that their card won't be run at full power. If you live in a hotter climate or have less strong cooling in the computer box, you could end up with a hotter GPU than you would like if it does not have a fan.

It is a good idea to spend a few more dollars/euros/yuan on a slightly better fan. Ball bearing fans will have a longer mean time to failure. The Gigabyte GTX 1060 6GB, for example, has a ball bearing fan.

It is also a good idea to have plenty of cooling in the computer chassis as well. Running all cores in a CPU, as Manifold does when it runs CPU parallel, will run it much hotter than just running one core. The best strategy is to have two or three chassis fans so the fans can run slower, for example 900 RPM, so that they stay quieter (more RPMs means much more noise) while the total effect from two or three fans is plenty of cooling. Noctua fans, for example, are very quiet at 900 RPM (almost can't tell the machine is on) and some of them have a 110,000 hour MTBF.

dmbrubac


1,611 post(s)
#11-Feb-19 16:03

Also, single fan cards are not a good option in any use case because fans can and do go and because more fans can spin slower resulting in lower aggregate noise. EVGA are often single fan, while Gigabyte, MSI and ASUS are usually dual and occasionally triple. A card with one dead fan should be loud enough to notify you something is wrong before you have a meltdown.

Gigabyte GTX1060 OC 6GB is currently CDN$330 at Canada Computers


Don't expect, suggest!

lionel

567 post(s)
#08-Feb-19 21:32

game desktop worstation index have no sense in manifold context

so here some nvidia core number and price ( in €/euro)

--sometimes for same version number , more GB GDDR can mean more cores

( more GB cost more, sometime miss GDDR bit )

--Ti can have more cores than without

( Ti cost more)

Attachments:
NVIDIA-CORE-PRICE.png
NVIDIA-CORE-PRICE_2rows.png


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Dimitri


5,491 post(s)
#11-Feb-19 07:34

Ouch... very high prices in France. In France I use amazon.fr for quick delivery of small things, like a cable, a chassis fan or a cartridge for a printer, but for high end things like video cards I usually buy in a less expensive country and then carry it in with me.

In the US you can buy a Zotac two fan GTX 1060 6GB for only $199 from newegg.com. An ASUS GTX 1060 6GB is only $209. $199 right now is 175 euros, much less than the 300 euros in the table. When you visit the US have newegg (or, better yet an Internet vendor who does not collect sales tax...) deliver it to your hotel and then take it home.

Amazon.fr - once you fight your way through the terrible user interface that does not allow a simple sort by price for only neuf (new) cards - has a PNY GTX 1060 GB for 239 euros.

Amazon.de has a nice Zotac GTX 1060 6GB for 199 euros. If you happen to be in Germany (close enough to much of France) on a visit, have Amazon.de deliver the card to you at your hotel and save.

lionel

567 post(s)
#11-Feb-19 21:53

Thank's for your advices and your links ( perhaps i ll wait for HRD10+ support so HDMI 2.0 but chipset is not available in 2019 only for dev) .

Here the number of CUDA cores for older to newer architecture : fermi 2012, kepler 2013, Maxell 2015, Pascal 2016, Turing 2018 rtx2xxx.

there is 3 names for graphic card

--Geforce ( fermi, kepler, maxell, ,pascal) : target ultimate PC gaming experience

--Quadro ( fermi , kepler,xxxxxx, pascal) : target professional workstations

--Tesla ....(xxxxxx, xxxxx,xxxxxx,pascal only) : targeting stream processing and general-purpose GPU

Attachments:
cuda_cores.png


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lionel

567 post(s)
#11-Feb-19 22:26

error : HRD10+ = hdr dynamic like dolby vision 12 bits not HDR 10 =static 10 bit is implemented in HDMI 2.1 spec but chipset is not available in 2019 for TV 4K consumer market only for dev ( samsung , LG,Sony .....)

dynamic specification

--Dolby Vision ( 12 bits) : the best film MD

--HDR10........ ( lO bits) : no royalties free ( the film)

--HDR10+ dynamic : metadonnées dynamiques MD

--HLG Hybrid Log G : compatible with SD and HD et TV NHK

--HDR Technicolor : play HDR on SDR only europe ( puce SDR2HDR )

Attachments:
hdr_spec.jpg


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