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Helenia4 post(s)
#18-Feb-20 18:58

Hello Fellow Manifolders,

It seems I had found my way onto the black list. I have a couple of ideas as to how that happened, but never mind.

I did what I needed to do to install the latest version of Manifold, but I can't use it. It is like I only have the viewer. I am not getting a message saying I have run out of activations, but if I had would it look like this? I cannot click on a polygon to select it, I can't do anything except add layers. Do I need to buy another licence? It was only through errors that I managed to use them all anyway.

Signed Confused Helenia Millenia

Fromerly Kaliana

Real name Helen Widdicombe

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#19-Feb-20 07:45

Let's take it step by step. Let's begin by finding out what version of Manifold you installed.

What is the name of the file from which you installed Manifold?

The answer to the above question will be something like "manifold-9.0.123-x64.exe" or "manifold-8.0.22.msi" or something like that.

Helenia4 post(s)
#19-Feb-20 22:19

Hi Dimitri,

I have Manifold System Build 9.0.170.0 (25 Nov 2019).

I used installation file manifold-9.0.170.4-x64.zip and unzipped it and installed it after uninstalling my previous version. I also took AVG off the computer to do this in case it was interferring.

Helenia

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 00:00

You are right in the thread title that you "can't" use Manifold.

You first need to read some very basic topics in the Manual.

First, you should read Read Me First, which is hiding at the top.

Next the Introduction, then Getting Started.

The topics under Basics are completely optional (but why not).

The rest of the manual only exists because some expired UNESCO funds needed to be used up.

StanNWT
196 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 00:45

I'm wondering if your statement about uninstalling refers to uninstalling 9.0.170.0? You need that installed to use the Edge build 9.0.170.4, unless I'm mistaken?

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 02:45

Yes.

I used installation file manifold-9.0.170.4-x64.zip and unzipped it and installed it after uninstalling my previous version.

There is no installation file for 9.0.170.4, the file named manifold-9.0.170.4-x64.zip can't be installed, and so on.

And on, and on.

Proceeding without reading squat is doomed.

StanNWT
196 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 03:37

I was simply making a gentle observation that if you uninstall 9.0.170.0 as a full install, you can't use the edge build 9.0.170.4. It seems that Helenia uninstalled the licensed software but didn't want to hit her over the head with that observation. Just a gentle nudge. I think that's why she can't use Manifold. Maybe I'm naive to suggest that verbose, descriptive, gentle nudges are better than brief sledgehammers for new users eager to try out the spectacularly powerful environment?

Perhaps I'm being too harsh?

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 03:50

Sledgehammers are definitely required in this case. Trust me. Don't waste your time with subtlety.

This user will either learn, or be blacklisted again. (Not my decision of course, just a prediction.)


All she needs to do is to give some evidence of having read parts of the manual, or a forum thread, that could be relevant to the question asked.

Then we're fine. Off to the races. A contributor even.

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 04:39

Let's be positive and think in terms of having a big tent. Everybody is welcome, we're all different, and maybe we can stretch a bit to help nudge a new colleague onto the learning path.

StanNWT
196 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 05:15

Thanks Dimitri, that's what I was hinting at... build a bigger tent by acts of assistance and being overtly helpful. Of course we all have stressful days and aren't always giving the most positive feedback. I'm like that most of the time in fact.

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 04:26

You need that installed to use the Edge build 9.0.170.4

No, you don't. Portable installations do not require installing any other Manifold installation as a prerequisite.

I generally use only portable installations, and often on a new machine I'll install whatever is the latest Edge portable installation. Always works fine (as it is designed to do) even if there's never been an "official" build installed on that machine.

You must, of course, be running on a Windows system that has all the various Windows prerequisites, such as Microsoft's .NET framework and C++ redistributables. If those haven't been installed already as part of Windows or by some other application, you'll have to install those. But you don't have to do that using an "official" build.

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 04:37

Are you sure Dimitri?

I can test, but I think that some public version must have been installed (even if it has later been removed) for a cutting-edge build to function.

Viewer will work regardless.

Is that wrong?

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 04:43

I think that some public version must have been installed

No, that's not the case. It's easy to try. Use a spare machine that's never had 9 on it. Use the latest portable and off it goes.

Or, if you don't have any old machines lying about, use a virtual machine.

If you're running Windows 10 you have Hyper-V. Takes but a moment to unlock your CPU to allow virtual machines (if, by happenstance your BIOS is configured to have that turned off by default) and then you can create a virtual machine in moments.

Launch a virtual machine and install a free copy of Windows, like one of the six month trials of Windows Server 2019. That's a guaranteed virgin machine. Try the latest portable on it and it works perfectly.

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 04:59

If true (I assume so but yes I will check), that is very interesting. Thanks.

It has never been announced. (For Radian Studio it was announced otherwise, maybe nothing since.)

Why would anyone actually buy Manifold 9, then?

How many refunds will you offer to people who purchased it but didn't need to?

And what is the point of Viewer?

That would all be silly. I hope you're wrong.

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 05:22

Why would anyone actually buy Manifold 9, then?

Sounds like a misunderstanding. From the Installations topic:

Any Manifold Release 9 installation, whether it is a pre-release build, Cutting Edge build or officially published build, requiresa Release 9 serial number with available activations.

You need a serial number to run Manifold. If it is the first time you've installed, whether you launch the latest Edge portable installation or whatever was the last "official" build, it will raise the Activation dialog.

Once 9 is activated, then whatever other installation you use on that machine, be it a cutting edge portable or an "official" build, will also be activated. If you originally ran and activated using a cutting edge portable build, and then later you install an "official" build, when you launch that official build it will already be activated and won't raise the activation dialog.

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 05:33

OK. So you were mainly wrong, though not wholly wrong. Also not usefully right.

A cutting-edge build won't run on a new machine or on a virtual machine... unless or until you activate that build on that machine... or unless you already have a public build activated on the same machine.

Not really a misunderstanding, rather, a seriously misleading misstatement on your part. ~False.

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 07:34

rather, a seriously misleading misstatement on your part. ~False.

On the contrary, exactly right. Installing an official build is not a prerequisite for installing a cutting edge build.

some public version must have been installed (even if it has later been removed) for a cutting-edge build to function.

The above is incorrect. There is no need for some public version to have been installed for a cutting edge build to function.

Talking about activation as a premise for saying that an official build is a prerequisite is a red herring, because cutting edge builds and official builds are exactly the same when it comes to activation. In either case, if you haven't activated previously you need to activate. Both use exactly the same activation process. If you've activated using either of them, you've activated for both of them.

Consider the following:

1. On a virgin machine, launch the latest cutting edge build.

2. It launches, and asks for activation. Activate.

3. Run happily.

Compare that to

1. On a virgin machine, launch the latest official build.

2. It launches and asks for activation. Activate.

3. Run happily.

Previously installing a cutting edge build is no more a prerequisite for installing an official build than the other way around. Neither is a prerequisite for the other.

As I noted, you must, of course, ensure that your Windows machine has all necessary Windows prerequisites installed. But that's just as true for the portable installations of official builds as it is for cutting edge builds.

If you don't mind messing with Windows installer, one way of having an installer take care of prerequisites for you is to install the .exe form of an official build. But that in no way is a prerequisite, that is, required. If the virgin (to Manifold) machine on which you install has a typically contemporary mix of software on it, in many cases it already will have .NET and a redistributable already on it. If not, it's quick to install the redistributable, with no need to do that by installing the .exe form of an official build.

StanNWT
196 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 05:19

I can see where I got that notion. I was referring to the executable install not the portable installation. I had issues early on in my current corporate work environment with downloading and having Trend Micro false flagging the portable 32-bit/64-bit installations... so I avoided all portable installations as well, if they're the same or different, either way. I only unzip the edge builds into folders and use the edge builds while they last, but I also install the full versions of Manifold 9 and Manifold 9 Viewer, first at every major release. I guess we all have different ways of keeping various versions on our machines and having the edge builds on our machines as well?

I'm fine with being corrected when I'm clearly wrong.

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 05:21

What notion do you think was wrong?

StanNWT
196 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 05:36

My assumption, not yours, that I needed, or anyone needed 9.0.170.0 installed to have 9.0.170.4 work... I wasn't thinking of portable installs, as I never use them.

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 05:37

Turns out you were materially right. Dimitri was basically wrong.

StanNWT
196 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 05:42

I only interjected my view to try and help... I wasn't meaning to get into a who's right vs. wrong thing. We're all right in the context of trying to assist. Though your assistance and Dimitri's in this thread are far more knowledgeable than mine.

I'm a guy that likes to use exceptionally powerful and capable software to leverage massively scaleable hardware to get work done. I know hardware and how to build really good workstations for GIS / remote sensing but programmers like you folks are far more knowledgeable to get the most out of the software on whatever hardware it's installed on.

For me Manifold is the most exceptionally powerful geoprocessing tool I've ever encountered on a set piece of computer hardware, even going back to Manifold 8.0.25 back in 2009, let alone what it can do now.

I just hope more and more people start to get past other venders "kool-aid" drinking mindset forking over gargantuan budgets to get less performance than what Manifold can do.

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 05:51

No one is blaming you (why would you think so?), but you are as much involved in who is right and who is wrong as anyone else here.

Because there is truth and there is falsehood, and they are not the same.

We are not "all right in the context of..." anything. [I think you removed that bit.--Good.] That is complete and utter bollocks. (And you're wrong to say so.)

It's OK to disagree--it's actually great to disagree, the more the better--but in the end truth wins.

Dimitri has balls. If you've ever met him, you'll know he also has élan, the kind of real charm that illuminates and animates a room, as many people as it contains. But not a big ego. Rare! He will admit if he was wrong.

We all mess up. No one cares much, because we all care more about the truth.

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 07:11

Dimitri was basically wrong.

Like how? There's no requirement to install an official build before you can use a cutting edge build, no more than there is a need to install a cutting edge build before you can use an official build.

[Edit] Missed your other post.... replying to that now.

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#20-Feb-20 04:36

I used installation file manifold-9.0.170.4-x64.zip and unzipped it and installed it after uninstalling my previous version.

Thanks Helenia! Let me repeat back what I understand is going on, just to make sure I got that right:

1. At one point you installed build 9.0.170.0, but then uninstalled it.

2. You've downloaded manifold-9.0.170.4-x64.zip and unzipped it.

3. To run it, you go into the bin64 folder and double-click manifold.exe

4. That fires up Manifold. You can do some things in Manifold, but not everything that you expect.

Is the above correct? If so, you have a functioning, activated Release 9.

If the above is correct, the next step(s) are to start learning about how to do what you want. Start by downloading the example project at http://www.manifoldgis.com/files/Chateaux.mxb . Launch Manifold and then drag and drop that .mxb file into the project to open it (or, just use File - Open) and we can take it from there.

vincent

1,972 post(s)
#26-Feb-20 21:43

I tought I had the same problem today than Helenia. Turned out the Content Pane was closed. Without the Content Pane, it looks like the Viewer.

Helenia4 post(s)
#04-Mar-20 23:12

Well, I ignited a firestorm didn't I! I have just come back in here to read this. I will download the file you suggested Dimitri, and it looks like vincent will be following this thread too.

You will see in the image that I do not have all the buttons on the toolbar I am used to and there are very few options on my dropdown lists.

Helenia

Attachments:
2020-03-05 12_11_13-Chateaux - Manifold System.png

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#05-Mar-20 06:44

I do not have all the buttons on the toolbar I am used to

The illustration shows everything is in place. 9 is not 8. If you are used to 8, 9 has fewer toolbar buttons.

Suggestions:

1. Read the topics in the beginning of the user manual: Read Me First, Introduction, the Getting Started book and the Basics chapter. That's a lot of reading, but most of it is illustrations so it goes fast. Make a fresh cup of tea or coffee, take it easy and just read through it.

2. Watch some of the videos from the videos page. The Introducing Viewer video is a good one to get started with. Viewer is read-only, but other than that it's the same as 9 so if you have 9 videos for either Viewer or 9 work fine.

3. In between reading topics, work through some of the Examples topics in the user manual, beginning with Introductory Examples. Those are very step by step and try to leave nothing out.

adamw


10,447 post(s)
#05-Mar-20 09:31

I'll just quickly add to what Dimitri said that 9 has fewer toolbar buttons compared to 8 because it moves a lot of functionality into panes / secondary tabs and frequently switches toolbars and menus based on context.

In many notable cases, things are just organized differently, with 9 having less UI elements than 8, which are actually doing much more. Eg, the Project pane in 9 includes all of the Project pane / Database Console / Server Console from 8 and many other things not found in 8 at all.

Helenia4 post(s)
#09-Mar-20 22:52

Thank you Adam. Maybe it is fine I just need to use the new functionality? I'll have to do some tutorials specifically for version 9. Another thing I couldn't do though was select a single polygon. I clicked on things and nothing selected. Do I need to select a tool first?

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#10-Mar-20 04:19

Selection is covered in the Selectiontopic in the Basics chapter. Selection moves are similar for drawings, tables, layouts, labels, grids, etc.

To select an object:

1. make sure the focus is on the layer where the object is located.... for example, if you have a map with buildings and with roads layers and you want to select a building, click on the buildings layer tab in the map to make that the active layer.

2. Ctrl-click the building desired.

A gentle reminder: this forum assumes you've invested reasonable effort into reading at least the basics. That helps keep the forum useful for higher level helping of each other.

You really do have to at least skim through the topics in the Getting Started and Basics chapters in the user manual. It's best to actually read them, but if you skim at least then when you want to know "how do I select something?" you'll know "Aha...there's a Selection topic with some useful illustrations... I'll look there..."

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